最近在美国的一个论坛上看见的一个精彩辩论

最近在国外论坛上看见一个经典的辩论转载一下[color=Red](20#有更新）[/color]


最近在浏览美国的一个论坛时看见一个很精彩的辩论，转贴一下给大家欣赏！这里面有一个是中国的厂家的业务员（以SALES表示），其他的都是美国老。（重点看SALES 的帖和26楼）我觉得有意义的回复都用黑体标出！
[b][color=Blue]我个人是觉得26楼说的很好，还有中国那个销售也是顶着压力在那里力辩，后来终于有一些美国人看不下去帮着他了！[/color][/b]
先是这个业务员在论坛推销产品：

Dear Sir/Madam:
---------------------------------

Best regards
XXXXXXXXXX

美国老甲1#：And you can go die...I'm tired of $3.50 nozzles and $29.95 injection pumps.
A very unwelcome to the club--reported.
__________________
-Grand Opening Specials at Boraparts.com (Under Construction)
-My items for sale (BleachedBora Bargain Bin)
-BB's sold...
美国老乙  #2 ：I  have heard plenty of stories of their rotors wiping clean in a month. Has anybody tried surface hardenning the contact area much like VW/Audi's solution to the high pressure injection cam wipe on the 2.0T?

美国老丙#3 ：Hhhmmm, I wonder if the username is a numerical designation for the number of spam accounts they've opened  Of course, the real irony is that they've spelled out their email address so that they wouldn't get spammed - classic!

[color=Blue]SALES  #5 ：___-(And you can go die...I'm tired of $3.50 nozzles and $29.95 injection pumps.
A very unwelcome to the club--reported.)
sir ,I believe you must be hurt by some products in China before,but not every factory are like this ,you can not denial all the factory in China because of some bad factory in China,we are also hate these  factory who place  rubbish to the world,it made us be abused by some customers indescribable!and I do not want to explain much on this ,our customers in USA know it,I do not want to persuade any one to be interested with us,but I really want you to change the mind with our Chinese products.there are so many sincerely good factory in China ,they treat customer as God ,and consider customer much!the only pity is you have not meet them yet![/color]
[color=Blue][b]SALES #6 （回复3#）[/b]（Hhhmmm, I wonder if the username is a numerical designation for the number of spam accounts they've .......)
sir!now i reply you,an it can prove i am not a spam machine，thanks![/color]

美国老丁#7  Any pictures and info on your TDI related products? Maybe you should offer up more info. Many here have bad experiances with china made parts. IF you are genuine maybe even giving someone some parts to "review" will drum up good business.
美国老 戊#8
I would install one of your pump heads if you mail it to me. Allow me to use it hard for a month and if I like it, I will pay for it, if I don't, I will send it back. I will take it apart again and take pictures after a month of use.

win/win?

美国老甲又来了#9
This is why I am done with Chinese parts--they all suck (except some very rare cases with TUV and Black hat certification (international euro/US quality standards)).
Since you're obviously spam I'm going to just go on a rant because I have nothing better to do...
When you can stop sending us crappy tires, fuses, toys with lead based paint, child suffocating cribs.
I've had crappy nozzles, water pumps, tensioners, belts etc... sent to me, and I am still sitting on the inventory because I wouldn't sell them to my worst enemy.
Seesh, you can't even make your fortune cookies right!
__________________
-Grand Opening Specials at Boraparts.com (Under Construction)
-My items for sale (BleachedBora Bargain Bin)
-BB's sold...

[color=Blue][b]SALES #10：[/b]
（回复甲）
your are really a dick guy !! all the words from you are so aggressive，in the 1# you ask us to go die,and now you abuse us again.it is not us who send the crappy goods to you !!!!![/color]
ninedee_golf_tdi #11：
Although I strive to buy American when possible, have you really ever looked at how much stuff China sells us ? If we ever pissed them off and they turned the spicket off, we'd be in deep doo-doo.

[color=Blue][b]SALES  #12：[/b]
（回复楼上）
sir,I know your thought,and you can buy just what you want to buy from ,it is your right.and I admit that many products from China are No better than the products from USA,but if you consider the quanity together with the price,our products are competitive with the products from USA,for example a product from China can be used with 9 months while 12 months products from USA.but the price from China are half for that of USA ,so that is 18 month compare to 12 month with the same money.now you can see the cost performance between the two clear.but that must have a precondition ，you do not buy products from rubish factory,these factory even do not have their market in China,the only thing they can do to make a living is to cheat the buyers from other country,many of them even do not send the goods after receipt of the money from buyer,then disappear,which made we meet a lot of problems when we doing foreign trade![/color]
[b]Birdman#13：[/b]
If we stopped buying from them THEY would be in deep doo doo also seeing we are their biggest trading partner. If we stop buying from them their economy would go in the crapper.

[b]tasdrouille #14：[/b]The only problem is that you can't affort to stop buying from them as you don't have the means to produce all you need...err...want...in your country.

The problem with China is QC. You can get a good batch, or you can get a crappy batch, and it's coming from the same supplier. I've had this problem with chineese made bearings, sometimes they would be excellent, but other times they appeared to be made out of craponium and a file would cut through it as if it were butter. I've seen those QC problems with hydraulic cylinders and small gas engines too.

Most of the time, regardless of the QC issue, chineese made products will do under light operating conditions. But when you're pushing the envelope (like people reading this like doing), reliability is up in the air.
hendomatic（有美国老看不下去了出来说好话） 15#：
The simpleton arrogance and snobbery revealed on this thread is amazing.

At least have some fun with this new member who has the guts and courage to correspond with literal translations and offers to sell parts like the other member of this club do.

What do you have to lose? Get over yourselves..

[color=Blue][b]SALES 16#[/b]（回复13楼）
sir!remember USA are only 2nd trading partner to China ,and we also buy many goods from USA, and what is more we send cheap goods to you but receive expensive goods from you.we send you goods with little benfit while when your goods to us with many times of benfit.and your country put many high pollution industry to our country ,and we only benfit a little labor fee from these industry but suffer the result of the pollution ,and your country gain most of it...... I can list many items that is unfair between our two country's trading .yes,USA are most developed country in the world!but I want to konw how it would be if the USA leave the world!!and we are only searching win-win business not the blind reject. [/color]
     
SALES 17#
（回复14楼）
Thank you for your neutrality stand ,and appreciate your clear sense to our chinese products!

Richard55  18#

Don't even try to blame the USA for Chinas lack of pollution controls, you are the problem for allowing pollution coming from your factories not the USA. Greedy people do greedy things. You choose to maunfacture crap, we choose not to buy it. end of story. This is the same story as japan after ww2, and I look forward to the time China steps up to the plate and starts building quality parts at a reasonable price. we will all benefit from that, but until then, as my dear ole daddy says, "don't tell me you love, show me".

[[i] 本帖最后由 410520 于 2007-12-25 08:27 编辑 [/i]]

精彩的还在后面:)

M I N I O N  19#：

Yah, I don't think my car could handle six 12mm pump heads. I would also not buy six of something that has no testing proof.

美国老甲跑回来了20#
（回复15#）
Quite a lot actually--do you want a Chinese turbo blowing in your engine? Water pump failing so you have to redo an entire timing belt job? How about the PD lift pumps that have failed right and left and left people stranded? They say VDO but once again they are coming out of China. Sure original parts fail too, but not at the same rate. I could go on and on and on--point is you are the consumers, you choose what to buy. I've tried Chinese and it's bitten me in the butt enough that I am staying away from everything that has not passed TuV and Black Hat standards. Let me point you in the right direction:
[url]http://www.volkswaparts.com/[/url]
All from China, yet even the turbos say Borg Warner K03.
I had Oldpoopie look at the "Deluxe TB kit" I can get those for ~$50 from my vendors, in his opinion it was bad stuff and not worth a $5000 engine risk. I'm through with this discussion, but as has been mentioned until QC is under control you will not get my business. And when you engage in unethical practices (Read: print OEM information on your products--I could go into detail but it'd probably anger some well known vendors) I'm going to stay away from you.
Have fun--and no, I don't wish you'd die, I'd never wish that. My original reply was posted because I thought that this was yet another spambot. I just wish your products would be higher quality and wouldn't mislead otherwise uninformed masses into thinking that they are getting the real deal.
-BB

hendomatic 21#
（回复20#）
Not my products. Not my business.

I am a guy who joined the club because I bought a 98 jetta tdi in September and prior to joining this club had no idea what a needle lift sensor was, nor what a banjo bolt was. VAG-COM? what the heck?

Now I have no fear of popping the hood, or messing with pump timing.. replacing struts, motor mounts... What awesome training! All from this forum!

I agree that someone like you and the other folks who sell on this forum would only want to sell the highest quality parts to your customers. I have bought from the recommended people on this list and will probably ask to buy something from you at some point in the future.

I have also looked at these parts(chinese) for sale and would really only buy things that wouldn't ruin my engine or kill me.

I figured a cheap set of injector nozzles couldnt hurt and actually my car runs better than it ever has and is getting 45mpg. Would I buy a turbo or timing belt kit? Nope, not a chance. Might buy a fuel or air filter. Some of the seals might be ok.

But the guy opened up to the forum, perhaps ignorantly, and was immediately treated like a criminal, IMO. Thats really my only issue with this thread.

It would have been much more fun to play the game and see if you could get some samples to play with. It would have been fun to see how these manufacturer manage to simply duplicate the genuine thing, down to the last detail.

The last thing I want to do is get into a pissing match with a respected member of this forum, but I was just flabbergasted by your reaction.

Hendo

精彩的部分来了！

Got Bearings? 22#


I don't support a country that kills its citizens and then hides it from them and pretends it never happened. Tianamen Square Massacre.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananm...otests_of_1989[/url]


KROUT  23#：
（回复22#）
You may not directly but I gurantee you have something in your house that was made there.

dlai  24#：（回复22#）
or wearing something made there...

Got Bearings?25# ：（回复23#）
Oh I know I do... sometimes you don't have a choice. But when I do have a choice, I'll gladly pay more for the non-chinese made product.

[color=Blue][size=5][color=Blue][b]topwriter2    26#：（回复22#）（超精彩的发言）[/b][/color]
By that logic, after reading a history book for the Japanese market about WW2 and you'll never buy anything from Japan.

Don't buy American products because they sold weapons to Iran and then tried to cover it up.

Don't buy French cheese because they sold weapons to Iraq that were used to kill Americans.

Don't buy heating oil because it may have come from Venezuela or a corrupt government in Africa.

Don't buy diamonds because the market is controlled by one company and they knowingly accept blood diamonds.

Read a ....[any country here] history book about [fill in your time period here] and you'll never buy anything from anyone.

Other countries think Americans are nuts because kids are shooting up malls and schools.


Vote with your wallet. There's ALWAYS a choice, Got Bearings, if you are sincere about your beliefs there are plenty of websites to avoid made in China products but people always end up saying "It's just easier". That's a choice.[/size][/color]

[[i] 本帖最后由 410520 于 2007-12-15 15:31 编辑 [/i]]

:L :L :L :L

还没有看懂啊。:( :$

大体上是很多美国老在论坛里抵制中国产品，全来攻击这个业务员，其中有几个美国老看不惯出来帮他说话

14#  15# 21# 特别是26楼是站在中国的业务员这边的！后面还有很多没时间帖，以后再帖。我觉得里面反映了大多数美国人对中国产品的态度！

在哪个论坛，公布出来，让我们精明的人民和他们辩论一场

在哪个论坛，公布出来，让我们精明的人民和他们辩论一场

那么长，类似了。看完。
哎，越来越不习惯读英语文章了。退化了。

全部看完了.......很好的东西.....

呵呵, 有点意思......

[quote]原帖由 [i]flyerliu[/i] 于 2007-12-14 10:56 发表 [url=http://bbs.fobshanghai.com/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=10933997&ptid=884695][img]http://bbs.fobshanghai.com/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
在哪个论坛，公布出来，让我们精明的人民和他们辩论一场 [/quote]
由于后面的帖子中越来越多的美国人站在中国业务这边，贴子到后面被他们该死的管理员封了！我只是把原贴保留了下来！后面还有很多的精彩部分没有贴出来！下午帖！

take a look.

回复 #1 410520 的帖子

不错的文章，不同意识形态的人在辩论，立场和角度不同，问题和答案也不同，

这种水平的英语跟美国佬吵架会很吃亏

太长了，没有怎么看下去，我觉得除了觉得有些美国人无礼的同时也要考虑下这个无礼产生的原因。我们做外贸的一定无论公司产品的质量还是我们的态度，一定要力足于维护中国尊严的点上。

还有一个问题，那就是那些美国佬本来就没打算买你的产品。真正采购的人是不会说这些的。不必要浪费这么多的时间和他们争论，他们不配！

回复 #18 太平洋的蓝 的帖子

中间其实有人问他产品价格，还有让他寄图片，我没有帖出来！

daedalus 27#:（回复26#）

Considering the website we are on... substitute "Germany" for "Japan"

But.. I still prefer to buy American when I can and it makes sense to do so
[color=Blue]SALES 28#  （回复18#）

sir!it is not for greed,but to make a living.you was born in a rich country,and have your superiority once you was born,God give you a nice living condition ,but when it comes to a country with 1.4 billion population ,and just have 1/20 economy to you,it appears completely different practice. yes,you can buy the highest quality products for yourself,and can put the pollution industry to other country ,and we must accept it,because we need the money to make a living,but it is not beg for you.[/color]

topwriter2 29#（回复27#）
Lol, yeah.

But my point was the popular opinion in Japan vs. German views of history compared to the Chinese cover up of Tiananmen Square.

German leadership was removed and they recognized their atrocities in the war, Japanese leadership was not removed and the public did not see the whole story. The Japanese government officially apologized but the popular public perception is still quite different from the popular opinion in Germany of their war atrocities. But it's not just Japan, the Portugese public always thought that they were the "gentle" colonial power because of censored news and books. A recent documentary that showed impaled heads on stakes proved otherwise.

But then again, us americans in the US of Americas, such as, like in South Africa, and the Iraq, our education, and like, don't have maps, so what do I know.
SALES 30#（回复26#）
you have a good sense of humor ,thank you for your excellent reply

Richard55 31#（回复18#）

Sir, I must agree with you wholeheartly about being born in a very rich country. The difference is we choose to make something of ourselves or not to. A lot of people choose not to and a lot choose the take advantage or our good fortune. Please do not try to play the card, oh poor me, and try to get me to purchase vastly inferior products just because you need the money. You put effort and time into making these poor products, why not put that same time and effort into making quality and we will beat a path to your door to buy them. In the mean time keep the crap in your backyard and in mine. Don't try to sell me junk or feel sorry for you, I don't and won't. Quality will always sell and junk will always be junk. So please don't waste your time or mine on this forum trying to sell this crap.

[color=Blue]SALES 32#（回复31#）

sir!I have told that my aim to this thread is not selling goods now,we have plenty of customer over the world,also in USA but not more than that of Europe ,they bought our goods on and on because they thought our products are worth to buy,and I do not care to sell in the forum by little order.my ture attention to this thread is the content in it comes to discuess our nation,I love my country just like your Americans do,although it is poor but we love peace and are developing with very fast step which I am very pround of ,and many factory in China are swift their point to the QC and not just the low cost and low price, so no junk will be sold from more and more factory in China in the near future.[/color]

美国老甲又来了 33#

Sigh* Before anyone gets ticked at me please remember a couple things:
Original post is very much like the spam we get plastered with all over the club.
What does this have to do with TDIs? Based on that I'm still inclined to think of this as spam, just spam that actually has someone on the other end this time.
And yes, we've had samples of the nozzles, and the pumps, and the lift pumps, and that's why I have no interest in more samples. . We actually considered buying in bulk the $3.50 nozzles, selling them for $20 shipped, then refunding it fully when customers trade them in for a real set...

Dodoma （说好话的）34#
When we opened trading with China, our aim was to move our manufacturing base overseas and get goods at lesser costs. While it is true that some products from China may not meet our standards, but the facts remains that without Chinese goods, stores such as 99-Cents only, Harbor Tools, etc. may not exist. What China offers is goods that affordable, and that otherwise would be prohibitively expensive. Why would you spend $10 for a US made hammer when a Chinese hammer is available for $4 and can do the same job? Same applies with jacks, precison tools, wrenches, etc. Because of their goods, I learned some hobbies and skills that were unthinkable and without fearing that breaking them would make be broke. We are upset because China is offering goods that we alway believed that we are the only ones who can produce them. Just like we like to eat chinese food because it is cheap, we should like wise embrace their other low priced goods, recognizing there there will be some that may be shoddy.
badgolfer（有照片，人很胖） 35#（回复34#）

Because I would rather see the jobs stay in America. If I have the choice, I'll always spend the extra money on the USA made product, and 99 times out of 100, it will be better quality.

SALES 36#（回复35#）

mm,yes,you can buy what you want ,because you are rich enough,it can be judged from your photo.

SALES 37#（回复33#）
and all your senseless effect is to prove you are the highest products vendor,and never provide poor goods.but this must be prove by the turth not just by words,I really look down up on such sham guy!

Richard55 38# （回复32#）
bleachedboras（那个美国老甲） products speak for themselves, yours do not. Your ancestors must be rolling in their graves about now, feeling nothing but embarrasment for you and their country. You must be the ones who step up to the plate and insist on good quality. Don't try to blame it on someone you don't know and can't see. What is the point of your posts if it is not to sell crap parts to us? Be honorable and tell the truth.
[color=RoyalBlue]tasdrouille  39# （说好话的）
Why can't you just leave the guy alone? Why do you all feel so threatened?

I'm sorry but I aint gonna buy $329 nozzles when they will not perform 4 times better than the $75 ones. And even if they would perform 4 times better, I would still not buy them as all I need is something that is cheap and better than stock.

Why would I pay $150 for a lift pump when I can get a free flow one that'll do the job for $50? Worst case, it breaks, so what I can get 3 before it was worth getting the $150 one.

There is a market for this kind of product. Chinese made products fill a niche that you guys can't compete in (or don't want to compete in, and that's understandable). Let the guy be, he's lucky enough to have freedom of speech here.

I totally support people buying goods from their country, but seriously, you're driving cars that were'nt made in the USA, and your houses are filled with everything chinese made, from electronics to door signs.[/color]

[color=RoyalBlue]Ray_G  40#（说好话的）
I commend him for hanging in there. I don't know why some of you think this post is spam. It is TDI specific (well they do sell other diesel parts too, not just TDI), the only rules that he is breaking are the ones requiring vendors to be registered. Like many of you I am not going to be purchasing most of these products either. But last time I checked this was still a free country for the most part. Unless Fred objects to him selling here I think he should be allowed to sell here. No matter how much I hate spending valueable natural resorces on most of the stuff that comes from China, they are just trying to make a living.
OH, I was able to send this to the forum on a Chinese made laptop.  Not that I want to open that discussion there, but really are they made anywhere else? (I know some are, but still)
Someone mentioned a set of 75.00 nozzles, his are like 3.00 bucks apiece and you can get a set of 6 for under 20.00, plus shipping and duties! You will have two spare ones!
On a different note, Bosch will not sell some parts of their pumps to people that are not dealers. Like their lift pumps, if Bosch won't sell me one, I might try one from this guy if it meant keeping a cheap pump running. I would not expect great results, but some of their stuff might work fine, and if it did not you just be with a dead car and out some time. I am with everyone else on the timing belt kits from there, would stay away. The other thing I don't like is them trying to pass some of their goods off with the OEM name stamped on them. Like their imfamous Hella fog lights  
This has been an interesting thread if nothing else.[/color]

BKmetz 41#（该死的论坛管理员）

Spammer has been banned. All you guys have to do is report the post. Please don't reply and give the spammer any credibility.

Thread closed.and that guy ID banned!
（把整个贴子连同业务员ID一起封了）

[[i] 本帖最后由 410520 于 2007-12-15 15:27 编辑 [/i]]

厉害啊!!!!!!这个一定要支持一下!!!!

纯属无聊！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！！建议版主删掉！！！！！！！！！

[color=Red]警告:请不要口出秽语[/color]

[[i] 本帖最后由 cutelisa 于 2007-12-15 08:58 编辑 [/i]]

回复 #22 panzq 的帖子

楼上的说话很脏啊！不喜欢可以不看！！留点口德！:@

Pls advise us the bbs website,then we could support to

[url]http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16[/url] 这是那个论坛的地址，就是找不到原贴，被删除了！

大家去找个叫BKmetz的就是他把帖删了，还封了ID。

[url]http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=10[/url] 就是他的个人信息

我晕。。。看来英语有待提高。

22楼的讲话确实很精彩。。

maybe

maybe my english is poor,maybe your saying have no turn feeling